Community discussion: trust

The Citizens’ Jury looked at the choices which South Australia has around establishing a nuclear waste storage and disposal facility, identifying that trust, accountability and transparency are three vital elements. Share your views on why these are important to you, and what Government could consider further.

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Darren Jakobsson

31 Jul 2016

The World today

Why is Australia looking at Nuclear fuel when the rest of world is so over the nuclear, coal and oil industries and are now doubling their investment in renewable energy, as the following examples state;-

Renewable Energy Investments: Major Milestones Reached, New World Record Set

• Coal and gas-fired generation attracted less than half as much capacity investment as renewables last year;
• Renewables added more to global energy generation capacity than all other technologies combined;
• For first time, developing world investments in renewables (up 19% in 2015) topped developed nations' (down 8%);
• World record total of $286 billion invested in renewables last year; makes $2.3 trillion over 12 years

http://unep.org/newscentre/default.aspx?ArticleID=36112&DocumentID=27068

Renewables are beating fossil fuels 2 to 1

While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

PG&E to close Diablo Canyon, California's last nuclear power plant

One of California’s largest energy utilities took a bold step in the 21st century electricity revolution with an agreement to close its last operating nuclear plant and develop more solar, wind and other clean power technologies.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-diablo-canyon-nuclear-20160621-snap-story.html

Concerned Australian Citizen
Darren Jakobsson

Government Agency

Consultation Team - Brooke > Darren Jakobsson

15 Aug 2016

Hi Darren, thanks for providing your feedback - it's certainly an important discussion for South Australians to have and appreciate your concern. As identifed by the Citizens' Jury, the Royal Commission examined all four parts of the nuclear fuel cycle including power generation. It concluded that under current market rules, power generation was not currently viable but should be considered as a low-carbon energy source in the future. It did find that the management and disposal of used nuclear fuel was the key opportunity for South Australians to discuss at this time.

Christopher Huckel > Darren Jakobsson

15 Aug 2016

Thankyou Darren keep the pressure up on them it's appreciated.

Darren Jakobsson

31 Jul 2016

Clean, Green Renewable Energy is the Right Way

Humanity should know by now that we have to work with the planet, to not use any nuclear or fossil fuels for our energy consumption which are so detrimental to our climate, our planet and more importantly our civilization.

So why think of spending billions of dollars on research, technology and new infrastructure for a nuclear industry when it is so dangerous and harmful to our society and the environment. Instead, use those billions to open up the Clean, Green Renewable Energy markets.

Use Geothermal energy for base load power.

- Japan - Opens its first new Geothermal Power Plant, three years after the nuclear disaster in Fukushima. The mood has shifted and opposition lessened, resulting in a growing number of companies seeking to build as many as 15 geothermal plants within the next five years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10701440/Japans-first-new-geothermal-power-plant-in-15-years-to-open-next-month.html

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/print/volume-18/issue-3/features/geothermal/is-japan-the-next-boom-market-for-the-geothermal-energy-industry.html

- Germany - Decommissioning their Nuclear Power stations after the Fukushima disaster.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/dossiers/challenges-germanys-nuclear-phase-out

- Geothermal in LA - Expanding their use of geothermal energy.

http://www.google.com.au/search?client=ms-android-sonymobile&channel=bm&site=webhp&source=hp&ei=4IihVp-SGcS-0QTHhJC4CA&q=geothermal+baseload+power+for+LA&oq=geothermal+baseload+power+for+LA&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12..33i21.3672.35961.0.38375.25.24.1.1.1.0.626.10604.2-2j10j4j8.24.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..1.19.7675.3.Y6u228TeF_E

- Geothermal in New Zealand - Is 90% carbon emissions free and use geothermal energy.

http://www.nzgeothermal.org.nz/geo_systems.html

Increase the Solar and Wind energy markets to help with baseload power and develop Biofuels for the transport industry: Cellulose, Corn, Soy, Algal Oil, Sugar Cane, Camelina and Jatropha, Rapeseed - canola oil and Methane.

Better still, Australia needs to make several key policy changes to boost the Electric Vehicle (EV) market and be the forerunners in the EV industry by inviting EV companies like Tesla Motors to establish electric vehicle manufacturing plants to replace Australia’s dying petrol car industry. The Electric Vehicle with Battery Storage market is the answer for the transport sector.

The key of course is the battery technology which is improving all the time both in terms of cost and energy density. Electric Battery storage will revolutionise the energy market, reducing peaking power requirements, optimising grid utilisation of renewables and in some cases enabling consumers to go off the grid altogether.

Since the 1980’s the majority of Australians have fought against having any nuclear industry in Australia and the answer for creating more revenue and jobs for South Australia is to generate the Clean, Green Renewable Energy markets which emit substantially low carbon emissions and are safe for our community and the bionetwork of our region.

The Australian government was closely and deeply engaged in the international debate that led to the Kyoto Protocol, however since the Abbott government it seems we have done a total backflip in regards to climate change and the renewables energy markets which is so embarrassing and disappointing on the international stage.

In regards to the COP 21 Agreement made in Paris, France in December 2015 which has been ratified 22/04/2016 by every nation in the world bar two, Australia should be ceasing all uranium and coal mining as we know it.

Jay Weatherill’s venture of wanting to make Adelaide a carbon-neutral city by 2025 offering the Low Carbon Entrepreneur’s Prize of $250,000 in seed funding for the development of ideas spanning, energy, transport, waste and liveability is a great way forward. To have Adelaide be a world leader in renewables and clean technology, aimed at cutting green-house gas emissions and to generate new green businesses in Adelaide I think we should exploit to the highest degree but when the SA Government issues a Royal Commission for a nuclear fuel industry in SA it seems very contradictory.

It has been said the nuclear industry has a popular vote, so let there be a State Vote, a Constitutional Referendum to let the people of South Australia have their say and vote on the nuclear issue which is our constitutional and democratic right.

The correct way forward to keep SA’s reputation as a clean, safe state is to invest in and be the forerunners and global market leaders in the Clean, Green Renewable Energy markets which will create more revenue and jobs for our people now and for future generations to come.
The people of SA should come first, so don’t invite such a high risk and condemn SA’s or Australia’s future generations and the environment to toxic waste for such a short term financial gain.

Don’t damage Australia’s clean reputation (clean being on so many different levels) as one of the world’s great countries, don’t contaminate it, just open up the Clean, Green Renewable Energy markets which the Australian people want!!!

Concerned Australian Citizen
Darren Jakobsson

Jeffrey Frommelt > Darren Jakobsson

14 Sep 2016

Will SAs wine growers need to label their export wine products as "not radio active" or will wine experts in Europe simply avoid SA products forever?

" Produce of South Australia - the world's biggest toxic nuclear rubbish dump"!

France's wine industry apparently suffered on rumours of possible Chernobyl fallout and contamination.

Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

Great to see that the Citizens jury looked at the issues of Trust Accountability and Transparency as three vital elements and what the Government could consider further I would suggest that the Government and all those with vested interests in this charade be honest with the Public and explain on national prime time television that no matter what the public actually want they intend to turn South Australia into the Worlds Nuclear Waste Dump and the proof of this Fact is the reason that they do not intend to Allow the people their LAWFUL DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS to be able to vote for the future they want and instead are attempting to Destroy the future of our children and their children for hundreds and thousands of years to come all to appease the NUCLEAR POWER INDUSTRY our Government talks about TRUST yet they do not TRUST the Public in voting on this issue and the reason they do not TRUST the Public is because they know how the Public will vote and it doesn't matter how informed (brainwashed) they think the Public is they know the result will put an end to this issue and the NUCLEAR POWER INDUSTRY won't allow this to happen and hence why this charade that's costing the tax payers of South Australia many millions of dollars continues with the final outcome a mere formality. WELCOME TO SOUTH AUSTRALIA THE WORLDS NUCLEAR DUMP.

Steven McColl > Christopher Huckel

04 Aug 2016

Just more unmitigated clap-trap from the ignorant.

Steven McColl > Christopher Huckel

04 Aug 2016

And your upper case tirades over and over all over the site, do nothing to add credence.

Steven McColl > Christopher Huckel

04 Aug 2016

Quite good at disrespecting others- but you don't like it when others present;
empirical,
theoretical or
anecdotal evidence on nuclear fuel that you happen not to 'like'.

My friend if you wish to be treated with respect, we will happily reciprocate.

Christopher we want to work with you we do - we're all entitled to an opinion but first on the basis of adequate knowledge.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

04 Aug 2016

How are you Steven you and Aaron all over every forum still denigrating those against this Filthy Toxic proposal I know you are having difficulty accepting every single person has a legal Democratic right to oppose this project even if they have no educational degrees or scientific degrees they are entitled to oppose this Toxic proposal on Moral and Ethical beliefs or just because they don't like the idea of turning our beautiful country into a Toxic Nuclear Wasteland Steven but that's the beauty of a Democracy and the sooner our inept bungling government wakes up the better.

Government Agency

Consultation Team - Brooke > Christopher Huckel

15 Aug 2016

Hi Christopher, as we've discussed previously - Chapter 6 of the Royal Commission Report looks at the need for social and community consent for any specific facility proposal to proceed. This includes addressing the importance of "ongoing" social consent through the many stages and gateways if this process was to go forward​. In this context, it identifies that a public vote on a proposal (at any one point in time) is not a reliable indicator of ongoing consent.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

15 Aug 2016

Hi Brooke please let me apologise to you in advance but I've heard this regurgitation before and I just can't swallow the rhetoric and I am disgusted that those paid by our government to spew and regurgitate this rhetoric seek to undermine our Democracy remembering the great people that fought and died for our country to protect our Democratic way of life something that you seem to be undermining but that's my opinion Brooke

Tim Bickmore

30 Jul 2016

The 'goal-posts' are 100,000+ years apart. Just how long does "trust" last?

Steven McColl > Tim Bickmore

04 Aug 2016

Now Tim has a good point - well said.

David Pitt

28 Jul 2016

Spike. These issues were raised in the first citizens jury. There was a representative there from the tribe that resides, were the proposed site is and she was adamant that her people under no circumstances want this waste repository on there land. The economic modelling is based on a lot of assumptions and the report makes no mention if there are any possible job prospects for Australians. As i have stated surely with the amount of money that has been spent and is yet to be spent surely there are many better options to pursue than this one The biggest issue is that successive governments have have made poor decisions, based on fear of losing office instead of looking after this great country and the people that live here because they thick that we could not understand the complex issues. If somebody had the courage to be honest and explain what needed to happen and why, then they would be rewarded by being returned to office easily. A couple of things i did learn through the jury process.One was that no matter where people came from and what level of education they had, given the information and a forum to be heard could get there heads around some pretty complex and tough issues. Also Throughout the four days we had lots of people with differing views and everyone was allowed to have input and treated with respect , very unlike what you see from our politicians.

David Pitt

27 Jul 2016

Stephanie .These types of Questions were raised during the first jury process, and I gave an interview very much along the same lines as your comment. It was trimmed to only show a small snippet which sounded like I was supportive of this proposal. I complained and it was removed.I feel this is the reason behind the citizens jury, to try and use the jury to give it credibility. Given the fact that the current government just sold the motor accident commission which was making a profit to give the budget a surplus.

Spike Barrow

27 Jul 2016

There is a long history of the government failing at its stated aim of being transparent and accountable, not necessarily just with issues to do with nuclear energy and uranium mining, but with many issues which tend to overlap very strongly with this proposal. For example, the people whose voices should be absolutely central in the consultation process are the Traditional Owners, but there is a long and very ugly history of their concerns being ignored or dismissed outright by successive governments who stood to benefit economically from one scheme or another. There is also a history of state governments and the federal government failing to be accountable for mistreatment of aboriginal people (eg very few of the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody were ever implemented) so how on earth are they supposed to trust that the government won't just continue in its tradition of ignoring and dismissing aboriginal concerns and opposition to destruction of their land? It is especially imperative that the government listens to aboriginal concerns when the dump is intended for land which includes sacred sites, song lines, burial grounds, and other culturally and historically important places and artifacts, which the proposed site in the Flinders Ranges most certainly does.
Personally, I can't trust a government which has such a long history of ignoring the concerns of the public on pretty much every issue the public has concerns about. There have been mass popular movements against nuclear waste dumps and the expansion of uranium mining in SA in the past, and yet the state government seems to think that we have forgotten about the past struggles- we haven't, and frankly its insulting that they didn't take NO for an answer the first time.
If the government seriously wants us to trust them about nuclear issues, it should fund an independent study of the contamination of the land surrounding the Olympic Dam mine- instead of letting BHP remain the only people monitoring pollution and radiation levels.
If the government wants us to trust them about nuclear issues, it should join the international call for an investigation into the use of depleted uranium warheads by US forces in the Gulf War and invasion of Iraq in 2003, rather than remaining silent because of our diplomatic ties to the USA- it would go a long way to earning my trust for our government to show some integrity on this issue.
And finally, if the government wants us to trust that it is impartial in this matter, and acting in our best interests, I would dearly like to see them explain why the property owner of the proposed dump site being a former Liberal Party senator is not seen as a conflict of interest.

Christopher Huckel > Spike Barrow

15 Aug 2016

Thankyou Spike.

Stephanie Johnston

26 Jul 2016

Of most interest to me are the questions around future ownership and management of the proposed facility. The Royal Commission report discusses how legal mechanisms can be put in place to ensure government ownership and safe management of the proposed facility for thousands of years into the future. And yet the report also says the current law prohibiting a nuclear waste facility needs to be changed to progress the nuclear agenda. In other words, this government needs to change what a previous government put in place to pursue what it sees as an economic benefit. So surely a future government can change what legal mechanisms this government might put in place to "guarantee" state ownership and management of the project? A future government could change the law to suit whatever profit motive it might have. (We have all witnessed the propensity for governments to sell assets over the past few decades.) Does anyone else see the irony here?

Aaron Morley > Stephanie Johnston

27 Jul 2016

Yes I do see the irony, you suddenly label the waste facility (rightfully) as an asset when I suits you, and liability in perpetuity when it suits you. That's irony all right.

Christopher Huckel > Stephanie Johnston

27 Jul 2016

Aaron Stephanie has made some very valid points in regards to the publics ability to be able to trust the government and their ability to change the goal posts as it suits them as much as it might annoy you Stephanie has raised perfectly valid points which is originally why this forum was set up Aaron.

Aaron Morley > Stephanie Johnston

27 Jul 2016

And the irony is, in a post about 'moving goalposts' she moved them herself...

Tim Bickmore > Stephanie Johnston

30 Jul 2016

The 'goal-posts' are 100,000+ years apart. Just how long does "trust" last.

Christopher Huckel

25 Jul 2016

Trust if anyone thinks that governments can be trusted or the corporations involved in this Filthy Toxic Industry can be trusted they are most certainly deluded when you go on past history and the pattern of COVERUPS that can be shown in South Australia involving the government it's plain to see they have an Agenda and will do and say anything to ensure those that have been busy behind the scenes lobbying our political representatives get what they want and they want to be able to Dump The Worlds Toxic Nuclear Waste onto South Australia and they will say and do anything to achieve their Agenda.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

25 Jul 2016

If the industry was as good at coverup as you seem to think they are wouldn't it stand to reason that you would actually know 'nothing' about anything that happens? The mere fact that facts are out there suggests that the alleged covering up has either not been as widespread or as effective as you think it's been.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

25 Jul 2016

I was actually expecting your mate Steven McColl you pair have become quite adept at working as a tag team on the forums backing each other up but to answer you Aaron just research the COVERUPS involving our minister of health who is by all reasoning a representative of our government now if they were prepared to hide the fact that so many individuals had recieved less than their required chemotherapy doses and if it wasn't for whistleblowers we still would be none the wiser so in making my statement the government are quiet adept at COVERUPS is 100% Factual which is more than you and your mate can say.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

25 Jul 2016

What does chemotherapy dosing have to do with this?

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

25 Jul 2016

Aaron you need to do your homework research it Aaron health department bungle and COVERUPS just one of many.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

27 Jul 2016

I don't see that medical mistakes or negligence has much to do with this issue.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

27 Jul 2016

That's the entire point Aaron is the fact you can't see how the government makes mistakes and then they try to cover those mistakes up in this case it cost the lives of several people and how many tens of thousands if we let them turn us into the WORLDS TOXIC NUCLEAR DUMPING GROUND because mistakes will be made and the COVERUPS will continue.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

27 Jul 2016

Which member of the government calculated and/or administered the incorrect dosage Christopher?

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

27 Jul 2016

You're talking about a medical misdiagnosis or malpractice and seemingly attaching government blame to that. That just doesn't make sense.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

27 Jul 2016

Aaron the government are the ones currently trying to come to some monetary arrangement with the families affected with quite a few payouts completed not being a lawyer or as highly educated as yourself my guess would be that if the government didn't think they were liable they would not be entertaining the idea of compensation but Aaron they are doing exactly that admitting liability but surely someone as clever as you would be fully aware of this fact. what I don't want to happen is the same scenario when dealing with High Level Nuclear Waste and the government ability to be able to handle High Level Nuclear Waste for several hundreds of thousands of years.

Stephanie Johnston > Christopher Huckel

28 Jul 2016

Aaron maybe you should subscribe to AdelaideNow so that you can at least keep up with local issues and the way that the state government and health department officials here have been implicated in chemotherapy dosage bungles and subsequent cover-ups in our two major hospitals, and how that was a systemic issue rather than a matter of an individual doctor's mistake. Then you could perhaps understand this broader question of trust of government management and openness in the local context better. You clearly don't live in South Australia, so why are you even participating in this forum, which is for South Australians to air and discuss their views? One of the weirdest things I am discovering in the nuclear discussion here and on other Facebook sites is the number of overseas participants, usually working or associated with the nuclear industry, who are so keen to tell the residents of a country on the other side of the world what a good idea it is for us to take on their nuclear waste. Or how it is our moral obligation to do so. And with the same kind of aggressive and personal attack approach to the debate that you use Aaron. It leaves you wondering whether people are actually paid to participate in these fora... and perhaps even trained to use a particular aggressive style. (I am not normally a conspiracy theorist, but it does seem weird that non residents are taking on such an active proponent role...) Oh, and as to whether a nuclear dump here would be an asset or a liability, the issue is we simply don't know! But the fact that it could be a liability might be enough to advise caution, rather than the unseemly haste we are observing in the current consultation process. But then we are told that the economic proposition is "time sensitive". i.e. if SA doesn't do it quickly, then someone else might beat us to it. Which again raises questions around the possibility that the whole proposition could end up a liability rather than an asset. I am not shifting goal posts or asserting truths here. I am simply doing my best to raise questions ...

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

If I clearly don't live in South Australia then where do I clearly live?

It's strange, because I am quite certain I live in South Australia. Pretty sure I work here, pretty sure I walked past the NFCRC display thingo in the mall yesterday.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

If I am paid to be on this forum then I respectfully ask the moderation crew to investigate where my cheques have gone, because I don't seem to have received a single one.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

Little touchy Aaron clearly Stephanie has struck a nerve and it's plain to see you and Steven have been operating as a type of tag team for the Pro Nuclear Lobby this is very hard to deny when one checks all previous discussions and posts it's beyond doubt this has been happening.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

Not touchy, answering the allegation.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

30 Jul 2016

It's hard to trust the Government or the Pro Nuclear Lobby when it's plainly obvious they all have vested interests in this Filthy project and it's easy too see how a certain couple of Pro Nuclear individuals are working together to denigrate everyone who speak up against this corrupt process.

Aaron Morley > Christopher Huckel

31 Jul 2016

Where's the corruption? You keep making that statement Christopher but you never seem to have much evidence for it.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

31 Jul 2016

When the Nuclear Power Indusrty can lobby our government behind closed doors without being transparent as to what financial inducements have been offered this is corrupt the Nuclear Power Lobbyists donate money to both sides of government with one intention to achieve their end game agenda to be able to Dump their waste in Australia if you believe Aaron this is not a corrupt process you obviously choose not to see.

Christopher Huckel > Christopher Huckel

31 Jul 2016

Judging by how these forums are going Aaron you and Steven are losing ground old mate. Great to see the Australian public standing up for a clean green future Aaron as much as this must upset you guys.